Meet the Cathars.They were a group of people who didn't believe the exact same things in the exact same way of the prevailing religious authorities back in medieval times. They believed in a more gentle faith that spoke about respect for all living things and not just for humans. They eschewed the dietary mores of the day and they advocated a diet that was low in killing of living things and high in the eating of vegetables and breads. They wanted no part of fighting or going to war, they believed in peace and they took seriously the commandment that said, "Thou shall not kill." The bottom line was the Cathars believed in peace and non violence all the way around, peace towards other humans and peace towards animals.
This all of course pissed off people at Catholic HQ in Rome. They told the Cathars that they must bring their faith in line with the teachings of the mother church or they'd face excommunication. The Cathars said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Fine, excommunicate us. We believe we're following God's word and you aren't, so what you say doesn't matter. We're going to live how we like and do what's best for us."
The folks at Catholic HQ in Rome said, and again I'm paraphrasing, "Oh hell no you won't." The Cathars were then not only excommunicated, they were hunted down and slaughtered for daring to believe something different from the theocratic leadership. There was one point when some Cathars were trapped with others in a church who may or may not have been followers of their doctrine and when the commanding Papal army person was asked if the Papal army soldiers should try to sort out who was and who was not a Cathar before the mass murder took place, the Papal commander infamously said, and I am not paraphrasing here, "Kill them all. God will know his own."
And that's the problem with theocracies in my opinion. If you don't believe the same things as the religious group in charge then you're going to be persecuted and perhaps killed. It happens in every theocracy sooner or later. In fact it's happening here in this country now and we're not a full blown theocracy yet. Senator Obama's minister is singled out for daring to have opinions that differ from the ones most of the mainstream churches have and now he's being hounded and persecuted for it, for the record I agree with most of what he said and whether you believe it or not we got attacked on September 11, 2001 not because terrorists hate our freedom but because we've supported oppressive regimes in the Middle East for many many years and because we treat people with brown and black skin like they are shit. On the other hand people who have made more hateful and insanely inflammatory remarks like Pat Robertson and John Hagge are not persecuted, they are applauded and lauded for being courageous enough to speak out.
Only when we get religion out of government all together can all our beliefs be safeguarded. I could care less if you choose to believe in Jesus or Buddha or Golems or Vishnu or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. As long as you keep those beliefs out of the sphere of government and you don't put one religion or belief system above any other then we'll all be fine. If we keep all religion out of government then all religions can concentrate on the thing they like to do best, hating atheists like me.
13 comments:
Those Cathars were marched into a bonfire - men, women, children - burned alive. Now there's some Christian sympathy for you.
The REAL Jesus would have smacked the Pope silly.
I agree with you 100% my man.
I'll drink to that. The getting religion out of politics part, not the monkey hating part, of course.
Thanks, Monkey. And let no one think it cannot happen again even in this country.
I agreed with Obama's pastor too... except take the "GOD" off the "DAMN". This country is headed for a fall.
Theocracies: Worst. Governments. Ever.
Right up there with every other kind of dictatorship.
RAmen.
Sister Angel Hair of the FSM and touched by His Noodly Appendages.
;-)
Thank you for the history lesson, yet another oppressive move on the part of the Catholic church, and oh, I was going to rant about the Pope, but who wants to hear, "Off with her head again?"
I am so glad you said it, because when I read what Obama's pastor said, I thought, "Hot (not God) Damn. That makes me like Obama more!"
Oh Dr Monkey- I want to say "preach it brother" or "amen" but it is just not the way to go.
I will say excellent post and good history lesson and wisdom for how to change the way this country is run.
No one wants government separate from religion more than me, thank you very much.
As for being religious and hating you- well, it can't be done and I don't even want to try.
Peace out Monkey man.
PS - I like your March madness sign. It totally works.
Killing inncocent people is perfectly OK, as long as you do it for Jesus.
my religion can beat up your religion
hence.....an atheist
rock on, Dr M
I don't believe religion defines all people, I respect beliefs that respect others. It's a shame to see how religion, ethnia, cultural differences are used as excuses for power, instead of learning from each other and live in peace.
Hope the next generations know better!
strange how those who try to practice the Christian religion as it is written are persecuted as being heretics. those in power want to decide what it means to practice a certain religion and now-a-days even want to determine what is really science. the one thing in common is the ability the define society's belief structure in order to perpetuate the powerful and NOT any damn thing else.
Cinderbelle sent us a link to a message board that is downright skin- crawlingly frightening. I think Enriched Geranium is going to write a post about it. I agree with Rev. John. Don't for a minute think that it can't happen again, or here. But at the same time, practice tolerance toward all.
Good post, Dr. Monk.
MNMom-Thanks.
Kirby-I'm glad you're not a monkey hater.
John-It's already happeneing in our country as we speak. The killing not so much yet, but the divsion and persecution hell yes.
Blueberry-May the FSM save us all from theocracies.
Freida-There were many protestant persecution examples I could have used.
Fran-Thanks for not hating on me.
Dr. Z-Isn't everything good as long as one does it for Jesus?
D Cap-You too my man mensch.
Mel-They will know better if we all teach them better.
Liberality-I'm proud to be a heretic and a non believer.
Suzy-I look forward to Ed's post. Thanks for your kind words.
Greetings! Sorry for the late comment. What a wonderful page and series of comments. Tiny historical note, these medieval good Christians were not forcibly marched into the flames, but as pacifists went voluntarily after refusing to renounce their faith.
Thank you!
Brad Hoffstetter
Communications Division
Assembly of good Christians
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